00:00 Nicole Wallace this afternoon once again our american airwaves are the setting for confrontation over the first amendment a battlefield really between autocratic instincts and impulses and pro-democracy forces so full of courage and cowardice alike so we'll start at the beginning last night stephen colbert began his cbs program with a message he said his lawyers didn't want his viewers to know about first just watch that moment 00:27 Stephen Colbert You know who is not one of my guests tonight? 00:30 That's Texas State Representative James Tallarico. 00:34 He was supposed to be here, but we were told in no uncertain terms by our network's lawyers, who called us directly, that we could not have him on the broadcast. 00:45 Then I was told in some uncertain terms that not only could I not have him on, I could not mention me not having him on. 00:54 And because my network clearly doesn't want us to talk about this, let's talk about this. 01:03 Nicole Wallace So we'll point something out. 01:04 You might have noticed that wasn't James Tallarico's picture over Colbert's shoulder. 01:08 So you understand it was sort of a bit, a joke Colbert made about not showing Tallarico on his program. 01:14 From there, though, Colbert went on to explain the backstory behind the alleged censorship, primarily what he described as new concerns at that network, CBS, over something the Federal Communications Commission recognizes as the equal time provision. 01:30 Here's what that is. 01:30 In short, radio and broadcast programs should offer an equal share of time to any candidate in a particular political race during the course of that campaign. 01:40 Of course, there have always been exceptions. 01:43 Cable news, for instance, and for a very long time, talk shows were exempt as well. 01:48 But a couple of weeks ago, the FCC, under its chair Brendan Carr of Jimmy Kimmel fame, issued new guidance that states in part, quote, a program that is motivated by partisan purposes, for example, would not be entitled to an exemption under longstanding FCC precedent. 02:06 In other words, Carr, who as recently as four days ago, said he harbors no regrets for his handling of the Jimmy Kimmel controversy late last year. 02:15 He's putting networks on notice now that talk shows like Colbert's show would now become a target of the Trump administration. 02:22 We've reached out to the FCC for comment, but they have not responded. 02:26 As for CBS, the network is today defending its decision, saying this, quote, The Late Show was not prohibited by CBS from broadcasting the interview with Representative James Tallarico. 02:38 The show has provided legal guidance that the broadcast could trigger the FCC equal time rule for two other candidates, including Representative Jasmine Crockett, and presented options for how the equal time for other candidates could be fulfilled. 02:52 The Late Show decided to present the interview through its YouTube channel with on-air promotion on the broadcast rather than potentially providing the equal time options. 03:02 Which brings us back to last night. 03:04 Stephen Colbert, under corporate and federal pressure, told us the truth. 03:10 The American people and his audience. 03:12 Not only that, he actually, as the statement alludes to, posted the interview he went on to conduct with the aforementioned Senate candidate James Tallarico. 03:21 As his state, Texas, begins early primary voting today. 03:25 Watch. 03:27 Stephen Colbert Do you mean to cause trouble? 03:29 I do. 03:31 James Tallarico I think that Donald Trump is worried that we're about to flip Texas. 03:44 And Stephen, this... 03:47 This is the party that ran against cancel culture. 03:51 And now they're trying to control what we watch, what we say, what we read. 03:57 And this is the most dangerous kind of cancel culture, the kind that comes from the top. 04:02 Corporate media executives are selling out the First Amendment to curry favor with corrupt politicians. 04:11 And a threat to any of our First Amendment rights is a threat to all of our First Amendment rights. 04:20 Nicole Wallace By the way, that interview described by Tallarico as one, as you heard, Donald Trump doesn't want you to see, is up to nearly two million views on YouTube in less than a day, while searches for his name on Google have skyrocketed. 04:34 That's where we start today. 04:35 Oliver Darcy's here. 04:36 He's the author of the newsletter Status, covers all things media, the person we turn to. 04:41 Also joining us, senior political analyst, contributing host on Pod Save America, the host of the podcast Runaway Country, Alex Wagner's here. 04:49 And also joining us at The Table, staff writer at The Atlantic, video podcast host David Frum is at The Table. 04:57 Let me sort of set the table with just a couple of other pieces. 05:01 I feel like we sort of live in this world of constant looking and watching at what they're going to do next. 05:10 But I just want to remind people of who Brendan Carr is. 05:14 Here he is from back in September talking about Jimmy Kimmel. 05:19 Brendan Carr Again, we are in the midst of a massive shift in dynamics in the media ecosystem for lots of reasons. 05:28 Again, including the permission structure that President Trump's election has provided. 05:32 And I would simply say we're not done yet with seeing the consequences of that shift. 05:39 Nicole Wallace Making no mistake that the politics is driving the policy. 05:42 Oliver Darcy Yeah, I think that's what's actually surprised everyone the most. 05:45 I mean, I've talked to a lot of former FCC commissioners, FCC chairs, both Republicans and Democrats have expressed a lot of alarm about how Brennan Carr is behaving as the FCC chair. 05:57 Never has an FCC chair behaved so brazenly political, you know, really carrying out Donald Trump's agenda. 06:05 And this is what they're attempting to do, right? 06:07 They're attempting to intimidate 06:08 I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:15 IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:17 IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:19 IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:20 Nicole Wallace IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:23 IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT. 06:25 Oliver Darcy Exactly. 06:25 And he wants Brendan Carr to do something about it. 06:28 And Brendan Carr is doing something about it. 06:29 He's working to eliminate critics from Donald Trump there. 06:32 And that comes in a lot of different forms, whether it's pressuring the affiliates of ABC and saying you guys should really drop Jimmy Kimmel and causing stir there, or by saying that the equal time rule is not going to apply anymore to late night talk show hosts or shows like The View. 06:49 And so we should be very clear about what's happening here. 06:52 He is attempting to silence the speech of critics. 06:55 And what's really sad is that CBS seems to have capitulated here and told Colbert that he was not allowed to have Teller Rico on the show last night. 07:05 Now CBS is strangely saying that's not what we said, which is also remarkable. 07:09 Nicole Wallace They seem to have spent more time on that statement than they might have spent dealing with the issue. 07:14 It's a very defensive statement out today. 07:17 Oliver Darcy Well, they're calling their arguably their most prominent personality effectively a liar, saying he misled his viewers, because Colbert said in no uncertain terms was he told that he could have Tallarico on the show. 07:28 They're saying that we just provided legal guidance. 07:31 So that's remarkable in itself. 07:32 And we should also note, too, that Colbert is no longer going to be a host, Kameh, because his show is canceled. 07:40 And that happened during this transaction where Paramount, 07:46 was sold to david ellison and they needed the to a curry favor from the administration and again trump hates colbert he hates kimmel and so while there's no direct evidence i suppose tying those two things together it sort of presses the imagination to think that colbert's cancellation had nothing to do with the politics and he's joked about that as recently as last night 08:09 Nicole Wallace It takes a figure, though, I think, to narrate this story for the American people, right? 08:15 Like, I feel like the four of us have been talking about and warning about authoritarianism for maybe nine years. 08:23 And I think the attacks on the press are a through line, they're a feature of Trump's time, right? 08:28 Calling the press the enemy of the people, having, I think, the publisher of The New York Times went down the first term to say, look, that puts journalists all over the world in danger. 08:37 Trump's never cared. 08:38 To find a person in Colbert willing to not just tell people what's happening, but to show them what's happening, does feel like the plot twist. 08:49 David Frum I've had a formula for describing many Trump actions, which is they're too sinister to be pathetic, but also too pathetic to be wholly sinister. 08:57 And that's what's going on here. 08:58 Nicole Wallace Wait, say that again. 09:00 David Frum Too sinister to be pathetic or too pathetic to be wholly sinister. 09:03 So you've probably noticed there's no equal time rule for Joe Rogan. 09:06 He doesn't have to give time to people to say vaccines are good. 09:09 There's no equal time rule on Fox. 09:10 There's no equal time rule for Candace Owens. 09:13 She doesn't have to have a person not to say, no, Jews don't eat babies. 09:18 This rule applies only to technology that existed before the advent of cable. 09:24 It's a leftover from the radio days. 09:26 Now, some of your viewers may remember 09:28 Back in the 1980s, 1986, the Ronald Reagan administration eliminated the so-called fairness doctrine because they said there's this thing coming called cable. 09:37 There's this thing coming maybe called the Internet. 09:40 And someday soon, this idea that there are only three channels is going to be obsolete. 09:44 So the government shouldn't regulate. 09:45 Soon there are going to be dozens, maybe a hundred, maybe more, maybe an infinite number. 09:49 The government should not be regulating how much time these infinite channels regulate. 09:53 And that was to allocate to each person. 09:56 And that was the free market view. 09:57 There's going to be technology. 09:58 The airwaves don't matter. 10:01 And the airwaves aren't scarce. 10:03 And so the government shouldn't be telling people. 10:05 So the only institutions that are regulated now 10:08 are AM FM radio and broadcast TV. 10:12 Unfortunately, those are the media that the president watches. 10:15 And so Brendan Carr says, my mission here is to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't see things that upset Donald Trump, even though, as you saw, 2 million views on YouTube. 10:23 I mean, as an act of censorship, pathetic. 10:25 But as an act of Brendan Carr saying to Donald Trump, I am protect, Donald Trump doesn't know how to use YouTube. 10:32 I'm going to protect you from what you don't want to see on the medium you use. 10:36 Nicole Wallace Sinister. 10:37 David Frum Sinister, but also pathetic.