00:02 Chris Hayes Tonight on All In. 00:04 Put me in jail. 00:06 They want to put me in jail. 00:08 We now live in a world where the former president has admitted he tried to stage a coup. 00:13 Liz Cheney I think that it tells us that he clearly would do this all again if he were given the chance. 00:18 Chris Hayes Tonight, the fallout from the ex-president's stunning admission and George Conway on what it means for the prosecutors investigating Trump. 00:25 Then the brazen takeover of an election board in Georgia where Republicans are canceling key voting days. 00:32 Plus... 00:33 Soundbite Absolutely. 00:35 I get things wrong, but I try to correct them. 00:37 Chris Hayes How the pressure on Spotify has finally gotten a response from their biggest star. 00:40 And as they turn vaccine resistors into celebrities, the brutal, tragic reality of their anti-vax advocacy that Fox News refuses to tell. 00:50 What's next for you? 00:52 Other than being a celebrity now, what's next for you? 00:55 When All In starts right now. 01:02 Good evening from New York. 01:03 I'm Chris Hayes. 01:04 Donald Trump wants the world to know that he is a clear and present danger to American democracy. 01:10 And after a near miss, he is mounting a second attack. 01:13 And I'm not connecting the dots or reading into anything to come to this conclusion. 01:17 One of the weirdest and yet strangely inoculating things about Donald Trump is that he just comes out and says what he's up to. 01:24 That's exactly what he did at a rally in Texas this weekend when he dangled pardons for the insurrectionists and essentially mounted a campaign to intimidate his way out of criminal liability. 01:36 Donald Trump If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6th fairly. 01:42 We will treat them fairly. 01:45 And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so badly. 01:52 unfairly if these radical vicious racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal i hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in washington dc in new york in atlanta and elsewhere because our country and our elections are corrupt they're corrupt 02:18 Chris Hayes Prosecutors try to charge him. 02:19 Donald Trump wants his supporters to take to the streets. 02:22 And yes, protest is a healthy part of democratic society, but it's also worth remembering what the very last pro-Trump protest in mass looked like. 02:33 And the following day, the former president was also remarkably clear about that day, about what his real intentions were on the day of the insurrection, January 6th. 02:45 He released this statement saying in part, quote, 02:54 Actually, what they were saying is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome. 02:58 Now they want to take that right away. 03:00 Unfortunately, he didn't exercise that power. 03:02 He could have overturned the election in his own words. 03:07 Donald Trump said he wanted Mike Pence to overturn the election. 03:10 Now, that's a phrase we use on this program all the time and have been using for a while because it's, I think, the most succinct articulation of what he was trying to do from in a coup and American democracy overturn election. 03:21 And now the twice impeached ex-president is using those same words himself. 03:26 As for Mike Pence, today we learned that his former chief of staff, a guy named Mark Short, testified before the committee investigating the insurrection. 03:34 He was subpoenaed back in December and reportedly appeared last week. 03:38 He was the guy by Mike Pence's side the entire time as Trump was bullying Pence to steal the election, as the Capitol was being attacked and Pence, again, was being shuffled to safety. 03:51 Of course, this doesn't stop with Donald Trump. 03:54 He's brought the entire Republican Party under his control, involving them in his clearly, consistently and repeatedly articulated anti-democratic aims. 04:05 If Republicans gain control of the House later this year, as they very well might, Donald Trump is going to wield incredible power. 04:12 He might even be Speaker. 04:14 The Daily Beast reported today Trump is already making plans, urging members of his party to prepare to investigate a conspiracy theory about his own attempted coup. 04:22 Quote, Trump has privately told Republican lawmakers, congressional candidates and operatives in recent months that Republicans on Capitol Hill should be prepared to launch a full blown investigation to, quote, get to the bottom of how FBI agents supposedly caused violence and mayhem on January 6th. 04:39 That's the the insurrection was an inside job theory proposed by lots of people, including hosts on Fox and a guy who got fired as a speech writer. 04:50 It's like the 9-11 was an inside job theory. 04:54 It's an utterly groundless theory that the insurrection was actually some sort of inside job perpetrated by undercover FBI agents. 05:00 It's bunk. 05:02 It originally came from a former Trump White House speechwriter who was fired for fraternizing with white supremacists, and Fox host Tucker Carlton has been promoting it for months. 05:12 Now, Donald Trump's increasingly exceedingly clear message that the last election was stolen from him, and Republicans need to be ready to do whatever it takes next time, has made its way down to the rank and file. 05:21 In fact, it's probably the one issue they're most passionate and focused on. 05:27 Many of them are even more honest about what that means. 05:30 So take a second. 05:31 I want you to listen to what two Republican candidates in Michigan told the crowd there this weekend about what they should be preparing to do. 05:40 Soundbite If you see something you don't like happening with the machines, if you see something going on, apply it from the wall. 05:46 Take control of the narrative. 05:48 We cannot sit on the sidelines anymore and be nice and pray for America and think that's going to be good enough. 05:53 Pray for America and take action to take our country back. 06:00 The Second Amendment isn't there for hunting rights. 06:04 It's not there for self-defense. 06:06 The Second Amendment is there. 06:08 The founders put it there. 06:23 The ideal thing is to do this peacefully. 06:28 That's ideal. 06:29 But the American people, at some point in time, if we can't change the tide, we need to be prepared. 06:39 So if you ask, what can we do? 06:42 Show a lie. 06:44 Chris Hayes Let me give you a little tip as someone who's covered people talking in politics for a long time. 06:49 Whenever you get someone saying the ideal is to do this peacefully and then the but comes, that's the part to listen to. 06:57 That's the part when you're urging people to engage in political violence, to show up armed. 07:03 Now, some of the strongest condemnation of Trump, we should say, is coming from within his own party. 07:08 It's a small number of people. 07:09 But early this evening, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the vice chair of the January 6th committee, denounced the former president's threats. 07:18 Liz Cheney He acknowledges that he was attempting to, quote, overturn the election. 07:22 He threatens prosecutors. 07:23 He uses the same language that he knows caused the January 6th violence. 07:28 And I think that it tells us that he clearly would do this all again if he were given the chance. 07:33 I think it's very important, though, for the American people to recognize and understand what we know and what the president, former president himself, is saying about his intentions, what his intentions clearly were, 07:44 a year ago on January 6th, and what he would do again if he ever got anywhere close to power. 07:50 And that just simply can't be who we are as Americans. 07:53 It can't be who we are as Republicans. 07:55 Chris Hayes People like conservative lawyer George Conway, who tore into Trump saying somebody should read the ex-president Miranda rights because he is admitting to his crime right there out in the open. 08:04 And joining me now is the aforementioned George Conway, conservative lawyer, Washington Post contributing columnist and Joyce Vance, a former U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Alabama. 08:12 George, I'll start with you. 08:14 I mean, I guess at one level, at least the honesty and clarity of try to want to overturn the election is useful. 08:24 George Conway Yes. 08:25 I mean, what he did over the weekend was kind of a trifecta going to his intent that prosecutors may be able to use. 08:33 I mean, the first is that by offering pardons or suggesting that he might pardon the people who committed violent acts on January 6th, he's demonstrating that, again, that he approved of their acts. 08:44 And it's consistent with the reports that he was watching with glee. 08:47 And it adds to the case that he was actually intending to foment violence that day. 08:53 his statements to the effect that he would, that he would, that he tried to fix the election, that he was trying to get Pence to overturn the election, go to his intent there about what he was trying to do, which goes to the corrupt, whether he was acting with a corrupt motive to try to interfere with a congressional proceeding. 09:15 And the other thing that he did was to show that 09:21 You know, this is his modus operandi. 09:23 He intends to, he's willing to use the threat of violence or to incite violence in order to coerce government officials to either forego enforcing the law against him or to, you know, violate the law as he sought to have Pence and members of Congress do on January 6th. 09:47 Chris Hayes Yeah, there's a kind of air of menace that hangs over all of this. 09:50 And people who have been on the other side of it will tell you, you know, what happens when you run the crosshairs rhetorically. 09:57 We should note that the Fulton County District Attorney sent a letter to the FBI yesterday. 10:00 This is the district attorney looking into possible criminal prosecution and a paneled grand jury about the president's attempt to solicit essentially election fraud. 10:08 And that called Raffensperger. 10:10 And says, I'm asking you immediately conduct a risk assessment of the Fulton County Courthouse and Government Center. 10:14 You provide protective resources to include intelligence and federal agents. 10:17 We must work together to keep the public safe. 10:19 Ensure we do not have a tragedy in Atlanta similar to what happened in the United States Capitol on January 6th, 2021. 10:25 And Joyce, that was striking to me right after Trump says, you know, take to the streets if I'm indicted, which, again, like taking the streets is fine. 10:33 That's part of civil society. 10:34 It's part of liberal democracy. 10:35 It just has a different valence when coming from him. 10:38 A year after the last time people took the streets, it ended up with, you know, cops heads being bashed in the Capitol. 10:46 Joyce Vance You know, enough of bending over backwards to give the former president the benefit of the doubt. 10:51 He made, I think, a pretty direct threat, and she was right. 10:55 This is the district attorney in Fulton County in Georgia. 10:59 She doesn't have a massive amount of resources at hand to protect her people and to protect the public as they enter her building. 11:06 She was absolutely right to reach out to the FBI, and I suspect that they'll give it very serious consideration because— 11:13 George says something that is so very true about Trump, as have you, Chris. 11:18 He doesn't play games when it comes to his intent. 11:21 And this is all about what his intent was, whether that's the element that prosecutors have to prove to tie him up to the insurrection or whether it's what he intends to do going forward. 11:32 He has made very clear statements. 11:34 This is a man who asked people to violently eject protesters from his own rally. 11:39 This is not a call from the former president for peaceful protests. 11:43 This is a call from the former president for more of the same because there have been no consequences, at least for him personally, for January 6th. 11:51 As long as there are no consequences, he will feel free to continue on that same trajectory. 11:56 Chris Hayes Yeah, particularly when you're saying it's the same speech in which you're floating pardons for people that did engage in violence on his behalf and in his name the last time around. 12:03 And I was also thinking about I was thinking about that. 12:06 George, in relation to that drafted speech that we saw that was handed over the committee. 12:12 That was this this speech that someone wrote for him the day after January 6th. 12:16 That was like basically normal politicians speak about January 6th. 12:20 This is terrible. 12:22 We reject it utterly to the people who did this. 12:24 You're not part of our movement. 12:26 They must be tried to the fullest extent of law, like all the things that you would expect. 12:29 And just the complete 180. 12:31 I mean, this was what the Republican establishment, the people around Trump wanted him to take up as his line in the aftermath and the day after. 12:38 A year later, he's saying, like, we're probably going to let them all out of jail. 12:42 Maybe we'll get the gang back together and come for you a second time. 12:46 George Conway Yeah, absolutely. 12:47 That's what he's doing. 12:48 And he's saying now that November 3rd was the real insurrection. 12:51 He's praising the people as he initially wanted to do. 12:55 He's praising the people who did what they did on January 6th. 12:58 He's back to the mode that he expressed that day when he said, this is what happens when a fair election is stolen. 13:05 He wanted these people to do what they did, and they did what they thought he wanted them to do. 13:13 And that's what they're telling courts when they're getting sentenced. 13:17 Chris Hayes And there's there's also this trickle down effect. 13:19 We saw it in those two individuals who are running for for office in Michigan, one running for state Senate, one running for governor saying, you know, unplug the machines. 13:26 The other saying show it up armed. 13:28 And this choice, this is this is what he said to in a local in an endorsement of a local election official race in Pennsylvania, where he he sort of quotes. 13:36 I think it's an apocryphal Stalin quote, but it's as sort of frankly authoritarian as you can get about controlling essentially the means of electoral counting. 13:44 Take a listen. 13:46 Donald Trump Western Pennsylvania, as you know, we did very well there. 13:49 We did very well in the state. 13:51 We won the state. 13:52 It's something that I contest, and I'll continue to contest it. 13:56 We were up by a massive amount at 10 o'clock in the evening, and then all of a sudden, things closed, and it reopened, and voila, look what happened. 14:05 So we have to be a lot sharper the next time when it comes to counting the vote. 14:10 There's a famous statement, sometimes the vote counter is more important than the candidate. 14:16 Chris Hayes And that's really been the message. 14:17 I mean, that is the message is that we need to seize the control of elections as opposed to win more votes. 14:23 We need to seize control of them and then, quote, overturn elections in his wording this weekend. 14:31 Joyce Vance It's very clear that the former president doesn't believe in 14:35 doesn't believe in winning elections by convincing the American people to vote for him. 14:41 He believes in winning elections by taking control of the machinery of elections. 14:47 It's an incredibly dangerous trend. 14:48 We see legislative action. 14:50 We see these pro-Trump candidates running. 14:53 And it is what the American people will most need to be on guard against in the upcoming midterm elections. 14:58 Chris Hayes Yeah. 14:59 And George, I mean, there's legislative fixes. 15:01 There's discussions about how to you know, there's there's legislations that propose that's more sweeping in terms of by Democrats to kind of guarantee a kind of baseline level of electoral access. 15:11 There's other stuff about reforming the Electoral Count Act. 15:14 But I keep coming back to this idea that there's something you you almost can't legislate your way out of one of two parties in a liberal democracy essentially withdrawing 15:25 from the basic legitimacy of liberal democracy as a collective undertaking, which is what we are watching happening in real time. 15:33 George Conway Yeah, and that's absolutely right. 15:34 I mean, the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the 12th Amendment, they all assume good faith. 15:42 They all assume that the various actors up and down the line are going to follow the law, follow the rule of law. 15:48 And, you know, that's exactly why Donald Trump was unsuccessful in 2020, 15:53 in fixing the election results, in overturning those election results, people like Raffensperger, the governor of Arizona, the governor of Georgia, various federal judges, many of whom were Republican. 16:05 And they all did their jobs and did their duties at the Maricopa County Electoral Board. 16:12 They all did the right thing. 16:15 And the question is, will the same people or people of the same quality and caliber and honesty and integrity 16:22 be there in 2024 in the states that matter? 16:26 And that's the scary question. 16:28 And I don't think any amendment or clarification to the Electoral Count Act of 1887 can guarantee that. 16:36 Chris Hayes George Conway and Joyce Vance, thank you both.